When you come upon challenges and disappointments, you have two options. You can get discouraged and stagnant, or you can row across an entire ocean. Well, maybe those aren’t the only two choices— unless your name is Jack Jarvis, today’s guest on Perspectives from the Top.
Winners Never Quit (ft. Jack Jarvis)
Jack Jarvis on how challenges become opportunities
OPENING QUOTE:
“If I hadn’t been unsuccessful on UKSF selection, I never would've been here, wouldn't have done what I did when I rode across the Atlantic, raised £70,000 for charity. So everything happens for a reason.”
—Jack Jarvis
GUEST BIO:
Jack Jarvis left school at just 16 to join the army as a soldier in the Royal Engineers, the military engineering part of the British Army, which enables mobility of action and denies the same to the enemy. Jack's determination and his belief in giving 100% by the age of 20 saw him successfully passing the extremely tough British military commando course and leading seven other soldiers in dynamic high risk environments. He then went on to become the first person to row solo across the Atlantic from mainland Europe to the mainland United States.
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[16:08] - Competence and Leadership
Two traits for essential leaders
Jack reflects on how all the great leaders he’s respected over the years have done two things. They’ve committed themselves to being leaders by example, never asking someone to do something they wouldn’t do themselves. And they also are committed to growing their competency. If they don’t have an answer, they’ll go and get it. We should all strive to be this kind of dependable leader.
[21:26] - The Bulletproof Mindset
Failure isn’t something to be ashamed of
Jack recounts his greatest life failure, and how it became the impetus for his greatest success. It made him realize that he had what he calls a “bulletproof mindset,” the ability to simply never quit and never be ashamed of failing. He’s since channeled that mindset into everything he does today.
[29:31] - Work Your Way Up to Incredible
A journey of smaller challenges
Did Jack immediately wake up and decide to row for 111 days across a dangerous ocean? No. In Chris’ words, “You can't just go straight to the biggest challenge of your life, because what happens is you need to go on a journey of smaller challenges that build you up and build you up and build you up. You have to go through the failures, which then become your learning points.”
[32:51] - Showing Initiative with Your Ideas
Jack’s advice for attracting investors and supporters
Jack didn’t have a concrete product or a guaranteed investment return. What he had was ideas, and he accepted his need to be tenacious with those ideas and never stop going hard at every opportunity he could find. That’s how he got the support he needed from some of the world’s most influential organizations.
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When he was the Global Head of Leadership at UBS, overseeing a staff of 70,000 across 100 countries, his team helped the bank transform organizational performance to increase profitability by 235%, market capitalization by 50% and win numerous awards. This is now a Harvard Case Study.
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CREDITS:
Jack Jarvis:
Been unsuccessful on UKSF selection. I never would've been here, wouldn't have done what I did when I rode across the Atlantic, raised a £70,000 charity, so everything happens for a reason.
Chris Roebuck:
Welcome to Perspectives From The Top. I'm Chris Roebuck global keynote speaker with unique leadership experience from military, business and government, bestselling offer and your guy to greater success. Together we will discover powerful insights from the world's leading thinkers, doers and trailblazers, there must know trends, thought provoking revelations, and practical actions you can use immediately. This is your exclusive and personal shop of insight and inspiration to help you get to the top.
Chris Roebuck:
Welcome to you and all of our Perspectives From The Top listeners around the world. It's great to share the insights of such successful people with you, to help you get to where you want to be. My guest today is Jack Jarvis, who is in some ways a contrast to many of them, my other guests who are senior leaders, who have progressed through their careers, maybe through business schools to get to where they are now.
Chris Roebuck:
Jack left school at just 16 to join the army as a soldier in the Royal Engineers, the military engineering part of the British Army, which enables mobility of action and denies the same to the enemy. Jack's determination and his belief in giving 100% by the age of 20 saw him successfully passing the extremely tough British military commando course and leading seven other soldiers in dynamic high risk environments. Now that led on to other challenges, which I'm not going to reveal as yet, but which come out in our interview and show how much it's possible to achieve, even if you have no significant formalized education, but you believe in yourself. Jack takes us through the high points and low points of his journey with real honesty and humility, and tells us how he succeeded in his greatest challenge to date.
Chris Roebuck:
Jack, welcome to Perspectives From The Top. Great to have you on the show. One of the things that I ask all our guests, which produces some really interesting answers is, you've got to where you get to over your career and with what you've achieved, but often sometimes people have somebody lurking in the background that sort of gave them the idea or triggered this journey that they've started on. Family member, teacher, mentor, boss, whatever. Was there somebody like that for you, who has been instrumental in where you've ended up?
Jack Jarvis:
Chris, great question to start and before I answer, I just say, thank you for having me on the show. And I've thought about this while I was on the row and I don't think there is one person in my life that has maybe made me the man I am today. What I would say is it was down to a sort of team, [inaudible 00:03:18] my family, my mom, my dad, both grafters, my stepdad as well, always looked up to my granddad, Budgy. So they really instilled that work ethic, determination, tenacity into me from a young age. And I think it would be unfair, although I've worked with some great people in the army, in the military, and then also teachers as well. But I couldn't really say, "Oh, it was this one person." I'd say it was my family that started me on this sort of journey and made me. Didn't make me the man I am today, but they certainly put me on the right path I'd say.
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah, it's interesting. It's always actually a combination of people along the journey and each one of them makes that little contribution. Now, you've told me that you were very, very sporty at school and I think the phrase that you used was great enthusiasm, but not necessarily much expertise, which is I think a great testament. Now, so you are sporty at school, you really got into it there and all the rest of it. One of the things I find interesting is that a lot of people when they're about to leave school are confused, really confused about what they're going to do, because there's so many different options that you can do. And you left school at 16, which is pretty young, but you knew exactly what you were going to do. Tell us more.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, so unfortunately never got the call up to Liverpool Football Club. They must have got my address wrong. I never got the last-
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah, probably.
Jack Jarvis:
That was definitely why. That was the only reason. No, I always knew I wanted to join the military from a young age and I think we touched on the sporty side there. [inaudible 00:05:10] was my favorite subject and although I lacked natural talent, I loved having a go. Being outdoors or indoors is the sport was indoors. And I think the reason I learned that way, is because I do have dyslexia so I'm not using that in an excuse, but I naturally find things that are physical with your hands a lot easier than sat down trying to write and all this... My attention span might be a little bit shorter than the average person. So yeah, it was always a thing I was keen to do.
Jack Jarvis:
My dad was in the military, someone I really looked up to and I think maybe sometimes people underestimate how important a dad is to a son. I idolized my dad, I thought he was amazing, almost a superhero, so I wanted to be like him. Also, as well, we got to remember from a young age all his friends, so my godfathers and the people he would introduce me to were all his friends from the military. So it seemed like the natural progression.
Jack Jarvis:
Also, as well, let's not get away from the fact that 16 years old after one of my first paycheck, but my second paycheck, I was earning nearly a £1,000, which is a lot of money for a kid like me, who'd worked a pub for sort of 10 hours a weekend and would get £50 a week. So yeah, that was another big draw to start earning straight away. But definitely some of the main reasons, because my dad was in the military and I wanted to do something outside with my hands, rather than college or university.
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah. Well, I think for our listers you came out with a phrase, my dad was in the military. So I will for the listeners' sake, just dive into a little detail. Jack's dad was in the military, he was in the Royal Engineers like I was in and Jack went into, but not only was he in the Royal Engineers, he was also a Royal Engineer commando like Jack is and he was a Royal Engineer, parachute paratrooper. So he did the paratroop course.
Chris Roebuck:
So let's be clear, dad's Jack was not an ordinary soldier, he was a paratrooper and a commando, which probably then led onto something we'll discuss later, because as soon as you were in the army and actually army pay for someone who's young is not bad. You started to push yourself even more and whether it was because you felt you had to, you started to head towards the commando course, not only did you do the commando course, but for listeners, just to give you a brief overview, the Royal Engineers are the engineering part of the British army and as such, you're just not a normal soldier, you are a combat engineer, meaning about building bridges and blowing things up.
Chris Roebuck:
But you're also a skilled tradesman and the Royal Engineers have tradesmen in electrician, bricklayers, plumbers like Jack and other trades, which also allows the army to do emergency aid in disaster areas and that sort of stuff. So it's quite a mixed and different bag of things, the tradesmen, the potential commando, the combat engineer and all of that sort of thing. So you went into do the commando course, you succeeded in doing the commando course. When you look back on that course, what did it teach you about yourself and perhaps the importance of teamwork?
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, so it certainly taught me a lot and I just want to touch on that where you said it was probably 50/50. Did I want to go and do the commando course, or did I have to go and do it? I definitely felt that the external pressure, although my dad, my mom, my dad's friends that were come on a train, never put that pressure on me. I used to think how could I go back to my dad's house and say I couldn't do something that you could do. So although he didn't put that pressure on me saying you've got to go commando, it's strange how that works. However, the other part of the thing I do love pushing myself and that determined tenacious mindset looks for those sort of challenges I find, so that's why I volunteered for the command course. Going back to sort what it told me is the importance of your personal admin needs to be on point.
Jack Jarvis:
But what the example I use is, if you're not pulling together as a team, you won't all succeed. So if you've got one guy who's not pulling his weight, his main personal admin isn't squared, it doesn't matter, because you are a team and that one bad link in the chain will drag the whole team down. So what it taught me is you need to be a good communicator and you need to be a good almost man manager I would say, because there's no point just screaming at someone if they're not keeping up, or if they can't do a certain thing, because it just puts them into a shell more and they just become worse and worse, which ultimately the section falters.
Jack Jarvis:
And also as well, so to your listeners on the commando course, if one of you fail, the whole section will get trashed. So ultimately you don't want anyone in your section that sort of below the standard, because it affects everyone. So you need to bring them on with you. So that's one of the big things I'd say you got to learn fast your [inaudible 00:11:08] sections put together, and then you've go out and exercise within the first week. So you've really got to understand whose strengths are what, who's maybe weaker other things and how you can distribute that and distribute the tasks around the team.
Chris Roebuck:
So for our lister, so you've effectively said some of the critical points of leadership that some people perhaps who are chief executives haven't even grasped yet, which is the fact that the team succeeds or falls together, that you have to identify strengths and weaknesses quickly, enable people to use their strengths, but also support people who have weaknesses to get better. And it's about clear communication, so everybody knows what's going on, and you are a team rather than a number of individuals. So you came out with that observation, how old were you at the end of the commander course?
Jack Jarvis:
I've would've been 18. I would've been 18 at the end of the commando course and maybe I did learn a lot, but I can't say it was all down to the commando course. Went on my [inaudible 00:12:23] in 2014, sort of in 20. That taught me a lot about leadership and also that first two years 59 Commando taught me a lot about leadership, what is a bad leader and what is a good leader. And we'll touch on that, I'm sure later, Chris.
Chris Roebuck:
We will, because I was just making the observation that by the time you were 19, you had fundamentally picked up some of the most critical points of leadership, which commercial organizations have great difficulty in terms of developing in leaders who are in their late 20s and early 30s, which is a testament to you. So moving on from that, you served in that environment for seven years and obviously in a commando environment to some degree it is fast moving, flexible. That flexibility and ability to adapt is absolutely critical to success.
Chris Roebuck:
And also during that time, you mentioned your [inaudible 00:13:20]. During that time you were promoted to be a junior NCO and therefore you were officially and effectively in charge of a team of seven other people in that environment. So give our listeners an impression of what that was like for somebody at the age of 21, 22 and what you discovered from that first true leadership journey, about what was important to get things done and for people to have faith in you as their leader.
Jack Jarvis:
So joining 59 Commando, it was tough. It was a very well completely masculine, there was no females there, so it was a tough, masculine, hard, almost elitist, everyone is sort of pushing themselves to be the best. So there was no room for weakness, so you had to either... You swam or you sank. It was very that sort of environment. But I loved it. I loved that it was tough, I loved that it wasn't acceptable. You'd go on courses and it was expected that you would come top. However, as I developed, I started to notice that maybe not everyone, a lot of people talk the talk, Chris, but not a lot of people walk the walk and in answering your question, learning about what's important with leadership, biggest one for me is you've got to be able to walk the walk ,leading by example means so much.
Jack Jarvis:
And I look at the best leaders I have, best instructors or whatever corporal, [inaudible 00:15:03] commanders, staff sergeants, the ones I looked up to the most were the ones that were always leading from the front on phase, were great instructors, had a fantastic subject knowledge on lessons they were teaching and things we have to achieve.
Jack Jarvis:
And that's not me saying they need to know everything all the time, but you would ask them a question, if they didn't know they'd go away and they'd come and find you and they'd let you know the answer to that question. So things like that, that's why I think leading by example is so important, because when I look at the bad leaders during my time there, you start to realize very quickly that this guy talks good game, but he's always at the back when we're doing any physical events. He talks a good game, but when he is given a lesson, he's shouting and screaming at large, because they can't do stuff. Well why? Probably because he doesn't know the answer. We're not expected... If you're given a lesson, you're not expected to know the answer. So you pick it up very quickly, so that's why I don't.
Chris Roebuck:
For listeners, it's about those fundamental points of the person has to have professional competence and they also have to lead by example. And within that, I'm sure an element of that is trust as well.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, exactly. Because, if you are asking someone to go into a gun fight onto a battlefield, it's a big thing. If they're going to risk their life, you need to trust. You need to trust in that leader that he's going to get you out alive. I wish you to think if we're in an ambush, is this guy going to get me out of a sticky situation? So if you've got that trust in someone, you will. Like I said, you'll follow him to the end of the earth.
Chris Roebuck:
But that is you see, that's a great point coming from you in the military. But for listeners who haven't been in the military, they will have observed, although not to the degree of risking your life, they will have observed exactly the same principles about the leaders who inspired them to give their best within a non-military environment. So you did the commando course, you were in 59, you were doing well and then you decided to take on what is perhaps the biggest challenge in any military, which is to take on potential selection for special forces.
Chris Roebuck:
Now for listeners who aren't familiar with the military and what that means, having been an officer myself in the same organization as Jack and having selected people to see if they were fit enough to appropriate, to even enter that selection program, I can absolutely assure you listeners that it is one of the hardest, toughest, most focused things that anybody can do.
Chris Roebuck:
And it pretty much takes over their whole life, because that is the focus of achieving that selection. It is one of the toughest things that anybody can ever do. And please don't be distracted by celebrities do selection on special forces programs on the television, because the reality is absolutely nothing like that, because obviously television programs, they can't afford to lose a celebrity down a hole in the ice in Norway and not find them again.
Chris Roebuck:
So it is of a completely different level. Do not be distracted by that. So Jack, you did all the massive, massive preparation. You were totally focused and then I think I can say for all the people I know who've done that, it becomes an assessment in your own mind of your own self as a person and as a professional. But it became a massive reflection point in your life. So tell us what happened.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, it did and before we go any further, the TV shows, the key is that they're TV shows. If they were to do an actual TV show on what selection is really like, it would be very, very boring, especially for the first three weeks. They just need to get rid of people and you do basically three weeks in the hills and it is just that. It's an absolute grind for three weeks, so it wouldn't be a very interesting TV shows. A lot of things they have on [inaudible 00:19:49] selection, I'm like, that didn't happen, that does not happen. But that's not about the TV show. So when you talk about reflection, so I was 20, 22, 23 when I went on selection and without going too much into the detail, I got stand up fail. So what that means is, I've made it to the part where they decide whether you get to continue with the continuation training, or if it's not been for you.
Jack Jarvis:
So 171 people started on day one, at the end of the first phase we were down to 55. Then went on for the second phase, was about six weeks... Well sorry, probably about eight weeks. And then after that phase we had 43 left, and at 22, got a standup [inaudible 00:20:40] and 21 we're allowed to continue with the continuation training. And when you say reflection for a long time, Chris, I wouldn't say depressed, but I was pretty sad. Never failed anything in my military career in my life really. And that was one of the first sort of failures I'd had.
Jack Jarvis:
So I was just like that. I sort of viewed myself as a failure, couldn't even look at my mom when she picked me up from the train station. And it took me a long time to realize that, yes, I'd failed, but I was still there at the end. My mindset hadn't failed, my body hadn't failed, I just wasn't up to the standard at that point in my life and which is fine.
Jack Jarvis:
And that's when I realized probably my best qualities is my bulletproof mindset. And I still find it's still a hard thing for me to understand, because it's so normal to me. It's just the way I'm wired. But when people say, "I don't know how you did that," I could never do that. And that's when I was like, oh, maybe there is something different in my psyche, that tenacious side that will not quit.
Jack Jarvis:
And then to anyone listening, failure isn't something to be ashamed of as long as you learn from it, so that was one of the things that I took away from that. And they sort of asked, but if I hadn't been unsuccessful on UKSF selection, I never would've been here, wouldn't have done what I did when I rode across the Atlantic, raised the £70,000 for charity. So everything happens for a reason.
Chris Roebuck:
Exactly. Exactly. And on behalf of our listeners, thanks for taking us through that story, because it's not an easy story to tell to the wider public, but you've pulled out of it, not only value for yourself, but also value for people listening. So thanks very much for doing that. So you did a lot of self-reflection.
Jack Jarvis:
You're very right. You're [inaudible 00:22:55]. Chris. For a long time I didn't really like talking about it, because I was so ashamed, not so ashamed, but I was ashamed that I failed. I thought I let myself down, my family down, that... Failure is part of life. If you don't fail, you've not pushed yourself hard enough. And it's a Teddy Roosevelt quote, "It's better to be the man in the arena than those shy, timid souls, that no neither victory nor defeat." And I really do agree with that.
Chris Roebuck:
Beautiful. It's beautiful quote. So you did a lot of self reflection after that and you sort out another way to challenge yourself again. And tell our listeners what this idea, this I was... Well, the reason I'm laughing is, it's just a slightly mad idea from the perspective of most normal people, but you just thought it was a good idea. So tell us what the idea was, Jack.
Jack Jarvis:
So I've come off selection and I'm a big believer that you need something in your life to aim for, to strive for. So that selection was that for me and come back and I was in a sort of limbo period and probably by chance that a friend of mine, Duncan Roy, so he just left. The engineers had been medically discharged. He'd just come back from rowing the Atlantic, which sounds strange, because you get medically discharged from the army, yet you then go and row the Atlantic.
Jack Jarvis:
But he had a knee injury, so it's impact that killed his knees. That was his injury, so that's how he ended up starting rowing. He was a runner, now he is a rower. And he came back, gave him this brief, 65 day crossing. They'd gone from Portugal to the Canaries, Canaries to Cape Verde, then Cape Verde across to South French Guyana. This mammoth challenge, they've faced so many troubles, their electrics died, they almost broke their rubber, [inaudible 00:24:56] stopped working and if you've been on a row machine, you know the wheels, so you slide up and down, all the wheels had seized up so they had to row by just arms. And he told me all this and I remember watching it Chris, and I was like, wow, I'm inspired, I need to do this.
Chris Roebuck:
Sorry. So let's take a step back Jack. So let's take a step back. Hang. So he's told you about all the disasters, all the troubles, the boat not working, the storms, the grief, the risks. And you said rather than you saying, "No, no, that's madness." You said, "That's for me."
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, pretty much. I don't know where that comes from Chris, I'm sorry. But I always remember being a five year old lad and telling my mom, "I'm going to climb Mount Everest one day." And she'd be like, "Jack, don't be silly. You're five years old." I love that sense of adventure, doing stuff that people think can't be done. I love that attraction and when people say, "Oh, that can't be done, or I can never do that." And I always think, "Well, if you've got that attitude, that's exactly why I've got the record and haven't." As soon as you can come to your mind, you'll be so surprised at what your body is capable of, because your mind will tell you to quit very early. My mind was literally telling me to quit four hours into my row and I was out at sea for a 111 days. So I had a lot left in the tank.
Chris Roebuck:
Exactly. Exactly that. It's that reserve that you have. What I think is interesting is that one of the things that military training does for those who haven't been in it and those who will understand, that military training helps you understand that the reserve you have in your own tank is significantly greater than you ever thought you had in your tank.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, 100%. I've only ever seen... Oh, actually now I've seen a few. I've seen when people literally collapse at the end of physical events or [inaudible 00:27:11] physical events, and they have literally pushed themselves to their limit. And I would say it's a beautiful thing to see. I mean it's not especially... It can be very dangerous and it is especially in a hot environment. But it does when I look and see if someone that's push themselves to the limit, I am impressed. I'm like wow, that's incredible.
Chris Roebuck:
So for listeners who are perhaps like Jack and young and fit, please remember that you are not superhuman and that your body does work like everybody else's body, and it is possible. I would say that it is possible to actually get to a point where your mind will keep you going past the point that you are starting to damage your own body.
Jack Jarvis:
Yes, I would agree with that. Yeah.
Chris Roebuck:
And Jack knows, because Jack's worked out where that point is. But for people who don't know where that point is, there have been cases where people have pushed themselves too hard with tragic results, because they've literally, their mind has overcome the resistance of their body. So with all the stuff that... I would just say to you listeners, please just don't think about grabbing a rowing boat somewhere and attempting to cross the Atlantic without doing a little bit of training like Jack did.
Jack Jarvis:
No, and Chris and I will touch on this as well, because I often get asked, "How did you have the mindset to weather it on?" Honestly I said, "It doesn't just start. I didn't wake up one..." Well, I did sort of. "It did just [inaudible 00:28:52], but my yard stick has been moving every day. Every challenge I've ever done has been harder and harder." So you join the army, basic training is the other thing, than phase two, than the commando course, than when you deploy to Norway [inaudible 00:29:06] warfare course is selection. So my mindset embodied exactly what you said has been tested and this is why I think hardship in your life is important not to shy away from it, because when you test yourself, you know what you go full of. And then when the next test comes around, you move a little bit further. That yard stick always keeps moving forward.
Chris Roebuck:
And that's a perfectly valid point, not just for listeners in the military, but that's a perfectly valid point for anybody who's listing about that. You can't just go straight to the biggest challenge of your life, because what happens is you need to go on a journey of smaller challenges that build you up and build you up and build you up.
Chris Roebuck:
You have to go through the failures, which then become your learning points. If we go to one of our other great interviewees, Gary Ridge, every failure is a learning moment to make you stronger. So you have the idea and taking on a target like that is a massive, absolutely massive organizational challenge. But you also needed to raise a lot of money. So you are raising about £85,000, probably $110,000.
Chris Roebuck:
Now that I find really interesting, because you are a serving soldier, you haven't run a business before, but at that moment you created, effectively created a startup organization. You needed to raise a lot of money to make it happen. And unlike most startups, you are not actually selling a service or producing a product. So tell listeners how the young soldier who'd never been in business before handled becoming an entrepreneur.
Jack Jarvis:
And this is what I reckon gets underestimated when I get asked about the row and they have a saying, "[inaudible 00:31:01] the hardest part of rowing in the ocean, is getting to the start line." Like you said, I have no business experience, never ran a business. My mom and grandma and grandmother run a pub, but it was tough. But again it goes back to sort of my values. I didn't have any business experience but I was determined, tenacious, and well, that was my approach. So straight away go onto internet, social media, find people that had done it before, see how they managed to do it, learn from them, learn from their mistakes. And then I was just like, so let's say you need to approach companies, I had no experience approaching companies. So I just thought I'm going to approach as many companies as I can for the next four hours.
Jack Jarvis:
And I would just go on any company that had a link with, doesn't matter if it was your dogs, the brothers, cats, sisters, owner. If you've got that personal link, use it, exploit it and just be tenacious. That was sort of how I went about it. It was a hard sell cause you are just a guy with an idea. Whereas, and I couldn't really... I suppose at the start you might be able to say, "Hey, if you invest 30 grand in 10 years, we'll turn that into 300 grand." I didn't have that. It was sometimes, yes, but sometimes you really had to be clever about how you could show them the value of investing in your dream, your project. So you've got to be initiative... Sorry. What's the word I'm looking for? You've got to be initiative.
Chris Roebuck:
You've got to have initiatives.
Jack Jarvis:
Initiative. You've got to show initiative with your ideas. And it's not sort of a hard and fast rule for every company. Every company is different, how what they might be able to benefit from and things like that. So by offering talks, some companies would rather have the advertising space. So it's all things like this that you sort have to think about and adapt.
Chris Roebuck:
It's an interesting point, because what you are doing is you are effectively picking up on what not just startup organizations do, but any organization does, which is to identify accurately the needs of your customer. And you are saying there what you do is, so does this company want advertising on the side of the boat? Do they want me to go and talk to their people? What is it that I can offer this particular person or organization that will get me, in your terms, their business, which is effectively their sponsorship for you.
Chris Roebuck:
So it's a beautiful example of how the really simple principles of being an entrepreneur, you actually took up and developed to produce the success you did. So you got the money and you started rowing and even though you had a mental crisis four hours in, you kept going. And so I would remind listeners that when I say rowing, what we are talking about is, and Jack will correct me if I'm wrong, 4,700 miles, 111 days-
Jack Jarvis:
Nautical miles.
Chris Roebuck:
Nautical miles. So that is significantly, well not... Is more than normal miles.
Jack Jarvis:
I think it works out roughly to about 5,200 land miles, so that would be the distance on land. Yeah, nautical mile is slightly longer.
Chris Roebuck:
It's too slightly. Yeah. So 5,200 normal miles, 111 days, Portugal to Florida, it's a world record and you have a certificate to prove it. So that's, one hell of an experience. So what were the sort of high points and low points of that time you were by yourself? The isolation, the boredom, you must have listened to so much music. Was it was the same three songs all the time?
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, no. It wasn't as bad as three. I think I had about six or seven. No I didn't take enough music. It was an amazing... I haven't got any words to describe it. It was out of this world. And just to go back to that first four hours, you'll get asked, "What is the toughest part?" And I said, "Well, maybe the start and the finish," because at the start you're like, you can see land. You're like, oh, I could just... What are you doing as you push away and that land gets smaller and smaller [inaudible 00:36:04] the distance. Once you're out there, Chris, you're out there. There's no one coming to rescue you. You literally have to finish or perish at sea. So I was always going to crack on. And the bulk of the crossing really is you get up, you grind it out for 14 hours, you isolate, you do that again.
Jack Jarvis:
It's a very simple existence. So I would say the high and the low points both come at the end. So as I entered the Straits of Florida, which is the current that rips around three to four knots, I was getting pushed further and further north, and I missed my first landing spot by 10 nautical miles. I was still out on the coast, real emotional time, because I didn't know if I was going to get in. All my family were out there as well. It really wasn't looking good. And at this point I'd been on a-
Chris Roebuck:
So sorry. So basically you're on coast of Florida, your family is at one point on the coast of Florida, but because of the speed of the current, you are getting taken further north on the coast of Florida. So essentially everyone is having to move up the coast to keep track with you, as you move up the coast driven by the current and you can't get into shore.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, literally I couldn't. I was making such little progress west compared to how much I was getting pushed further and further north. And what people don't realize is a lot of the coast of Florida isn't technically classed as mainland USA, because it's been dredged, all the inlets. So they're like technically islands joined by bridges. So if I'd have crashed one of those islands, Chris, that would've been the record, null and void. Oh wow. It would all go through my head as I'm getting closer I'm like, well, I have to come back and do this all again 111 days, and just a really mad time and also faced with two options, getting the cabin [inaudible 00:38:01] or carry on rowing.
Jack Jarvis:
So that's, what I did, from that final day, I rowed for, I think I rowed for 21 hours out of 24. So really, really intense. As you know, I think it was 22 hours out of 24. So it was really intense. That tenacious and so I never say die attitude paid off though, because I made it out the Straits of Florida, was able to anchor up and then the following morning [inaudible 00:38:30] came into Stewart, which is a small town in North Florida and all my family friends were there and it was such an incredible moment, and I absolutely... That was the highest moment just coming in, seeing all my family.
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah, I'm sure it was. So actually one of the lowest points was when... I can imagine it would be, when you can see where you are supposed to be, but you can't get there.
Jack Jarvis:
Yes. Yeah, that was 100% the lowest point. I was really emotional in that last few hours, because [inaudible 00:39:06] sponsors, that starts going through your head. Well, I've let all my sponsors down, also a lot of money tied up in that boat. So I didn't want to crash that on the rocks and all these things are going through your head. So yeah, it was a stressful time.
Chris Roebuck:
And particularly because from what you've described it, it was like the negatives were beginning to stack up one by one.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, they were.
Chris Roebuck:
That made the situation look worse moment for a moment and you just said, "I've got to do something about this," which is why you did. And let's just take a step back for listeners. He did actually say he rowed solidly for 22 hours out of 24.
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah. Chris, I've got to... So it wasn't solidly. So it's for four hours and 20 minutes and then had a 40 minute break and this is when I realized things were not going to plan. So that 40 minutes I'd gone two miles directly north. So then I rowed for eight and then I rowed for eight hours straight, had a 20 minute break and then rode for a further 10 hours.
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah, because for those listeners who have not spent much time on the sea and in my part [inaudible 00:40:28] a distant past, I've taught windsurfing and that sort of stuff. So both Jack and I under a current, if you are not under power either by row or sail or motor, and you are in current, the moment you are not under power, you go wherever that current is going and you go there fast. So if you are trying to get across a current and any point you stop being powered as you go across that current, you will disappear away. And that's the situation you were in. So for every minute you stopped rowing, the current was taking you further away from where you wanted to go.
Jack Jarvis:
That was exactly it, Chris. So in those eight hours I was literally able to stop rowing for less than 30 seconds to quickly get a drink of water and then I'd have to row a bit and then I'd quickly show a bit of food in my mouth, then that would be me for another half an hour. So yeah, it was tough. It was really tough.
Chris Roebuck:
It's just an amazing story. And so what additional things did you learn about yourself on that voyage?
Jack Jarvis:
Maybe not learnt but hadn't validated. That for me was the biggest [inaudible 00:41:42] away from the rowing. I'd gone into that environment. I tested myself in situations which were ultimately life and death. My decisions were life and death. I did something that had never been done before. So what the row gave me is that validation that I wasn't that nearly mad, that when the chips were down that I could rely on myself. I was never going to quit. And that's what the row gave me. I maybe didn't learn anything about myself, because I always knew deep down I was mentally tough, mentally robust, because like I said, that yard stick has been moving and moving and moving, but it just gave me that validation.
Chris Roebuck:
So the interesting thing is that, the set against that, you actually had a job in the army. And for listeners you were and still are instructing at the Royal School of Military Engineering, teaching the next generation of Royal Engineers soldiers to be professional and able to do their job. So the row has given you satisfaction in terms of challenging yourself, but I'm sure that your work that you do with those developing soldiers also gives you satisfaction. Tell us about that.
Jack Jarvis:
It certainly does. When you get a group of lads and lasses, day one and then you finish with them at the end of week nine and they learned from you, they look up to you and you've instilled all your knowledge and a few of your core values. And I mean it does make you really proud. It makes me more proud as well actually when lads choose to follow the route you decided to take and they decide to volunteer for the commando course. I really enjoy that. That really fills me with pride. And then when you see them and they've passed their commando course, that's an amazing feeling. I always remember this one lad, I will shout about Nathan Castle. So when I was on my trade course, I used to volunteer and take the 2-3, 2-4 training and he was going 2-3 and I managed to convince him to go 2-4 and that when he passed his commando, of course I was really proud. He was a good lad. He was a good lad in the squadron, everyone liked him. So I was happy I was able to convert him.
Chris Roebuck:
So I mean that's an amazing achievement, in terms of what you've achieved developing the next generation, being a role model for them and some of them following you on into the commando world so to speak. So it's that nice balance you have of pushing yourself, but also using that as an example to help others both develop and push themselves. So if, you then reflect on... Your journey, you became a leader at an extremely young age, in a tough dynamic environment. You served under leaders in any number of environments, the commando or the more traditional combat engineer environment. What do you think are the most critical things that you expect leaders to give you, and also that you try and give people that you've been leading? You've spoken about example, but is there anything else?
Jack Jarvis:
Yes, my big one is lead by example. If you're going to talk the talk, make sure you walk the walk. Nothing wrong with being confident, as long as you can back it up. Also, respect. And what I mean by that is, don't expect respect if you're bad at your job, but have the self respect, be professional, turn up on time with the right kit in the right place, and naturally that will mean you'll learn that respect.
Chris Roebuck:
Well, [inaudible 00:45:51] great point. Respect is earned, it's not assumed.
Jack Jarvis:
And I always find it funny when people go, "Oh, he's always riding me, he's always giving me a hard time." Well, why? Maybe you are doing something wrong and that leads me onto my third point. As a leader or as a member of the team, take accountability. So my lads don't know anything. Well, why don't they know anything? Maybe because I haven't shown them. [inaudible 00:46:18] maybe I haven't taught them well enough. Did I not communicate that Communication is also key? Too often now though, I see people trying to pass the buck, the blame. If you've made a mistake, just own up. Just say, "Yeah, I wasn't clear enough with my communication on this. Yeah, I should have done that sooner. It [inaudible 00:46:37] away with me bad time management." Accountability is so important. And also that all, when people take accountability, you can't help but respect them, in my eyes.
Jack Jarvis:
Great example, so when we were doing hurricane disaster relief in the Caribbean in 2018, I won't name the troop commando, but he was late. We were going out on a march and he was late. "Yeah, sorry lads, [inaudible 00:47:01] didn't go off," and he gave himself extras and I thought he's taken accountability from himself and he's led by example. I was also late for a curfew, maybe stayed out for one too many piña coladas. I got punished rightly so. I've made a mistake, don't hold that against the [inaudible 00:47:20]. The [inaudible 00:47:22] was then late, was late for a curfew and he didn't take any extras and I still like the guy, he wasn't I think... But in that instant there, he let himself down. He didn't lead by example, because everyone makes mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes no matter who you are. But then he didn't take accountability for that mistake and he set-
Chris Roebuck:
It's a great point for all listeners. Wherever you are listening, it's about the fact that if things go wrong, one of the first questions you need to ask is not blame the person who made the mistake, but ask yourself the fundamental question, why did they make the mistake? Was I clear enough about what I wanted? Did I give them the resources they needed to be able to do the job properly? Did I ensure they had the knowledge to be able to do the job properly? And if in the final analysis, as a leader you have to take responsibility for your own actions. And issues in the team are just as much about you as they are about the people in the team, because it's called a team. You are all in it together.
Chris Roebuck:
So an interesting quick question. What would you say therefore are the benefits that you have had in your life of serving in the military? And do you think that people who haven't done it and who haven't or been in families where people have done it, often to some degree underestimate the positive impact that the military training about personal responsibility, about basic standards can have on people's lives?
Jack Jarvis:
Yeah, it's been huge for me. Let's not beat around the bush, Chris, I've been in 12 years and you're right. You hit them out on the head. That personal pride that it instilled in you, that personal discipline to get up, make your bed, make sure you [inaudible 00:49:23] the night before. Just these small things that make a huge difference. So you've talked discipline, that loyalty to the team, understanding how to work within a team. The leadership courses that we go on are really, really good. And it talks about all those points that are said, lead by example, be a good communicator, take accountability. So I really can't recommend the military. The military is sort of enough. If maybe you are leaving school and you're not unsure, I'd say I think it's worth giving it a thought, Chris.
Chris Roebuck:
I think I have not met anybody who has served in the military, who has not gained significantly in terms of their ability to live their lives more fully, particularly around their ability to get things done and the skills and mindset that they learnt in the military, then become absolutely invaluable when they leave the military and go into wider life. And I certainly am capable of doing significantly more, because every time I do things and I take a step back and reflect always in the successful execution of things, in the inspiration of people, in building a team, lurking underneath somewhere is some of the basics that I learned when I was in the military, in around doing those things that are important.
Chris Roebuck:
Not just in the military, but in any organization of any size, to pull people together to get their best and focus it on what needs to be done. So now you have more challenges coming up, but I'm not going to mention them and you don't have to mention them either, because then it'll be a surprise for our listeners. But if they want to know what the challenges are, because there's one in a few weeks, how can they listeners find out more about you and your forthcoming challenges then?
Jack Jarvis:
In 19 days is the day I'll be starting. So if you want to follow me on social media, it's Jack Jarvis Official, but the website is also Jack Jarvis. Upcoming challenges, motivational speaking. Also, I'm releasing a podcast as well. So if you could follow, I'd really appreciate it guys, because this is only the beginning. This is only the beginning.
Chris Roebuck:
And I will thank you for allowing me to be a guest on your podcast, Winners Never Quit. So definitely listeners, Jack Jarvis Official. If you have a problem, just go to Google and Google Jack Jarvis rower. That's all you need to do. That will get you there. So I know Jack has got some amazing challenges coming up. It is actually... Yes, I know that this is the beginning, because having spent some time with Jack, I am myself waiting with baited breath to see what is on the challenge agenda over the next couple of years. For those of you who want to know more about the Royal Engineers that both Jack and I served in, and what the Royal Engineers have been doing since 1745, just get onto Google and Google Royal Engineers and there will be some stuff there. Even if you're are not in the UK, you might find it of interest. And finally, Jack, what can I say? Thank you so much for an inspirational interview for giving us some amazing insights into your successes and your challenges. And on behalf of all the listeners, just best of luck for the future.
Jack Jarvis:
No, Chris, thank you very much. I really appreciate it mate, and I look forward to some more challenges and sharing them with you in the future.
Chris Roebuck:
As we quote the motto of the Royal Engineers, Ubique, meaning everywhere, I know.
Jack Jarvis:
Everywhere. Yeah.
Chris Roebuck:
Everywhere you will be finding challenges. So thanks for your time.
Jack Jarvis:
Chris, thank you very much, man. Appreciate it.
Chris Roebuck:
Cheers. Well listeners, there certainly is a lot there to reflect on and a lot there that you can do something about tomorrow. Above all, as I said at the start of the interview, Jack just optimizes what it is possible to do if you put your mind to it, despite to some degree in an environment where you maybe start with a disadvantage. But I think amongst all the great insights and ideas that Jack has, is a much more fundamental point about the effective development of leadership in organizations.
Chris Roebuck:
Jack's ability to be a highly effective leader of a team of seven people at the age of just 20, operating in such an environment contradicts the two often heard excuse within the commercial world, that good leadership is very difficult to develop. Jack proves that's not true. His simple clarity about what leaders should do to get the best from people is something that all of you listening can take away and do something with as of tomorrow. As for Winners Never Quit, the name of Jack's podcast. I'm really looking forward to seeing the challenges that Jack will set for himself in the future. So check out his social media, because it's going to be really interesting.
Chris Roebuck:
Therefore, just identify one action you've heard in this interview and go and start to make it happen between now and our next episode. Don't forget that in a week I will give you a more in depth view of the key takeaways from Jack, my insights and ideas for action and my reflections on the top. And if you've used any of the insights that you've got from previous perspectives guests and they've helped you, please send me your success stories. I've had some great ones in already, about the simple day to day actions that you can implement having just heard the interviews. Also, don't forget to sign up on the website, connect to me with on LinkedIn if you like, and just keep on listening, because we have some even more amazing guests coming up.
Chris Roebuck:
Thanks for tuning in. Check out the show notes from today's episodes at perspectivesfromthetop.com, where you can only enjoy additional resources from today's show, but all previous ones. If you haven't already subscribed to the show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your favorite podcast, so you don't miss any. And if you really enjoyed the show, please give us a five star rating and review. Have a question or comment? Let's discuss it. Message me on LinkedIn. Perspectives From The Top is produced in collaboration with Detroit Podcast Studios, so have a successful week. Use today's new learnings and actions and remember, it's onwards and upwards. See you next time on Perspectives From The Top.